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Smelly Contessa!!!

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samourai View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote samourai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Smelly Contessa!!!
    Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 8:51pm
Hi everybody, just a couple of pics concerning the drilling in the keel. 
Actually, after reading all the posts, I thought it could be helpful to have a visual idea of the situation. 
There was about 4 to 5 Lts of smelly water that came out. Afterwards we flushed the whole void with 
bilge cleaner and a lot of water. Quite a job, but was really worth it. We used then a Karcher vacuum cleaner which has the possibility of also blowing air out in order to dry out the area. The keel area will now dry until spring and then we will fill it up with West System epoxy resin (slow hardener). 
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samourai View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote samourai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 8:52pm
drilling the keel

Edited by samourai - 22 Nov 2016 at 8:54pm
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samourai View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote samourai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 8:55pm
smelly water

Edited by samourai - 22 Nov 2016 at 8:56pm
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waratah912 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote waratah912 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 1:58pm
There's a paper in the technical papers section of the website which covers this :
http://www.co32.org/sites/default/files/Co32BilgeSmells.pdf

Paul Smith
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samourai View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote samourai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2017 at 10:48am
Hi everybody, 

I am at the point to fill up the keel with West System Epoxy. 
I did follow exactly the technical procedure for drilling in the keel and cleaning the area with 
some bilge cleaner and a lot of water. It was left all winter to dry out and now we have to fill it up Confused.
The boat is lying in Greece and the temperature at the moment is in between 12 deg celcius at night and 23 deg celcius during the day. The void in the keel seems to be in between 4 and 5 liters. 
My concern is how to pour all this epoxy in without creating an exothermic reaction which could damage seriously the boat with heat. I am using the West System Epoxy and the question is which hardener to use : 206 (slow) or 209 (extra slow). I have read Colin's posts but he doesn't specify which hardener he was using and that is the important bit. Plus the fact that I don't really think you can manage to fill up 0.5l epoxy at once without creating a serious exothermic reaction. 
Does anybody has any more information on the subject ? 

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George Isted View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote George Isted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2017 at 1:03pm
You are right to be concerned about the heat that will be created even with slow epoxy hardener when there is a high volume of epoxy being used.   You will either need to do this in small batches or I would suggest using polyester resin.  

You are just trying to fill the void, it is non-structural and this is (I believe) what Rogers would use to fill the voids.   By using polyester resin you can use a very small amount of catalyst for a longer and slower cure so heat is much better managed.

if in the UK I would suggest you call and get advice from www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk

hope this helps.
George


George Isted
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samourai View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote samourai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2017 at 8:33pm
Hi George, 
Thanks a lot for your quick post. I am seriously considering your advice since we have concerns about exothermic reaction, plus the fact that we don't know how dry is in there. So at least with polyester it should still work. Two more questions: 
1-any idea if it is better to use isophtalic resin or orthophtalic ? 
2-is polyester liquid enough to get in there through an 10mm hole with a syringe ? 
As you said, this is non-structural, but it is still a big void in there and I would like to be sure this is 
going to be filled up correctly. 
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George Isted View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote George Isted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2017 at 11:14am

Isophthalic polyester resin has a greater resistance to water - most boats are manufactured using this resin due to increased resistance to osmosis (that's not to say newer boats don't get it - just that it's less likely - or they can stay in the water for longer without problems).

Yes, the polyester resin can be/is just as fluid at epoxy.  Like epoxy there are many different manufacturers and the resins have different properties.

George Isted
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samourai View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote samourai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2017 at 7:22pm
This afternoon I called J.R. yard and had a chat with Dave Flower (I hope I am spelling it right) who is in charge of the resin jobs. 
He confirmed that they usually use polyester resin to fill up the voids in the keels but also said that you can use epoxy with a slow hardener. In both cases it is important to do the filling in steps and wait a bit in order to avoid overheating. To be on the safe side, I have decided to do the job with isophtalic polyester resin. It is also much cheaper than epoxy and easier to use in this case. Dave Flower also confirmed that I could use a minimum of 1% catalyst which will give more time to work, but not less. In order to fill up the voids in steps, I have drilled several holes on both sides of the keel at different levels and try to use a 60 ml syringe to fill it bit by bit. Hopefully, it should work fine. 
I will post again when the job is done. 
Thanks again George for the advice. Thumbs Up
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waratah912 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote waratah912 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2017 at 7:52pm
Some photographs of the job in progress would be interesting, or maybe even a technical paper?
Paul Smith
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