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Forepeak shelving

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Berneray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Berneray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Forepeak shelving
    Posted: 17 Aug 2012 at 2:33pm
Can you help?
 
I am going to replace the existing forepeak arrangement of plywood and plastic panelling and forward upper cupboard with bare GRP and simple shelving. Have you any experience of this or tips?
 
I am particularly interested in how to secure a a 3/4 length shelf on both sides which is suitably load bearing. I presume it will have to be a chemical bond that takes most of the load rather than a physical arrangement.
 
Any thoughts?
Many thanks.
A. Fulton
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moongirl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moongirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2012 at 12:44pm
Rather than trying to bond a 'thin' edge to the hull I think the answers would be as follows:

  1. Make suitable ply brackets for bonding to the hull in the usual manner ie use Epoxy + FG Tape and make a nice fillet. Number of brackets depends on length. Use a nice straight bendy batten (or a laser if you have one!) to mark up locations on the hull, offer up each bracket and adjust the top parts such that the shelf will be even.
  2. Having marked the bracket locations offer up the shelf and 'spile' to the curve of the hull using a block of wood & pencil.
  3. Trim the shelf to a straight line or curve to choice on the inner edge and fit a deep capping which will not only add structural strength but also stop stuff falling out!  Some ingenuity will be required to hold the finished shelf/brackets in place for bonding and it might be necessary to screw some temp/y supports to the inside of the hull taking care not to use screws which would penetrate to the outside. Hope this helps! I could sketch out and e-mail to you (what is your e-mail address) Regards
COLIN
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waratah912 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote waratah912 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 6:04pm
That sounds like the arrangement on the early boats - it's what we have and I was thinking of going the other way. The shelves beome a dumping ground nd you can never find what you're looking for. 
Paul Smith
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Berneray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Berneray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2012 at 9:54am
Colin,
 
This is helpful. Thank you very much. I shall get back you to chat some more if that is okay.
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Berneray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Berneray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2012 at 9:56am
Good luck then!
I am just fed up waking up in the night thinking I am in a coffin, alebit a small one!
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Kemah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kemah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2012 at 8:42pm

two winters ago I removed everything frome the forepeak including the two shelfs which were porely laminated to the hull giving hardly any strength. I removed all the paint and painted everything new with a two pot polyuretane. It looked nice but during spring and fall the bare GRP got really moist due to condensation especially with the heater on. Last year I insulated the sealing and hull  and finished it with oregon pine trimming. Problems are over now. Bare GRP is not a real option if you want to use the forepeak as a sleeping place.

Regards Rob
Kemah
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Berneray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Berneray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2012 at 9:17pm
Rob,
This is really helpful, thank you. In fact I was thinking the very same thing and wondered about using the existing panelling as templates to cut new panels which would have a veneer finish. The old pannneling foam inner has failed and I have heard that a closed cell foam (like a thin camping mat) would help with sound proofing and stop condensation. Hmmm!  
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Kemah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kemah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2012 at 8:49am

For the insulation I used a rugged plastic bubble foil with an aluminium coating on one side. I stretched this over frames to leave some air between the foil and the GRP. I glued the frames with Sikaflex to the bare GRP. Over the foil I screwed the 45 mm wide and 12 mm thick varnished oregon pine strips . I decided not to use plywood due to the double curvature but I also understood that some boats have used plywood so this could work. For the ceiling I used the same insulation method although I used white painted plywood to finish it.

 
Regards
 
Rob
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Richard Ritchie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Richard Ritchie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 11:29am
Beware of leaving room for hips if you play with the shelves.
I had the original longitudinal shelves which we could not get our hips under when sleeping, so uncomfortable.  I have removed the rear part so they only extend 60 cm from the forepeak and this has made a huge difference to comfort.  New end panels web bonded as above have a 100mm hole in the middle for reaching for your torch/watch.  Works well.
I will surface with painted plywood with routed grooves to simulate planking. But I now need to reinsulate.  I am unconvinced by bubble wrap and like the idea of closed cell foam, but have yet to source some.  I look forward to other ideas for the best material.
Richard Ritchie
Badger of Baltimore
IRL 120
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Kemah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kemah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 10:13pm
Hi Richard,
 
Most effective is to bond a closed cell PVC foam onto the bare GRP ( the one you use for primary sandwich constructions) IThe disadvantage here is the method to bond this to the GRP using vacuum. You could also vacuum the plywood to the foam which even stiffen the hull but this is a time consuming and difficult solution but you avoid moisture between the foam and the GRP . I used the bubble foil as a cheap and simple alternative and after a summer of cruising it appeared an effective way. I did not have any condensation left in the forepeak. I did not try it yet in very cold weather condition so don't know what happens sailing in wintertime.
 
regards
 
Rob
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