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AGM 2013 Rules Amendment Discussion

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Mark Himsworth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Himsworth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: AGM 2013 Rules Amendment Discussion
    Posted: 12 Feb 2013 at 10:06pm
It might be useful for those who are unable or unlikely to be present at the AGM on 23rd February to have an opportunity to exchange views about the proposed amendments to the class Rules. This might be one such opportunity.

The proposed changes are:

"In PART 3 SAIL SPECIFICATION a new 3.6 is added as follows:
A)  3.6 USE OF PREVIOUSLY REGISTERED SAILS
Sails registered before the date of the Annual General Meeting in 2014 in accordance with 
the then current version of the Class Racing Rules will be regarded as complying with the 
present Rules in perpetuity and may be used for Class racing. They must be used in 
accordance with the requirements of the Rules in force on the date of registration. Such 
registration shall be evidenced by the issue of a Sail Measurement Certificate.
Resolution proposed by Richard Clark and Seconded by George Isted.
OR
B)  3.6 USE OF PREVIOUSLY REGISTERED SAILS
Sails registered before Saturday 18 February 2012 in accordance with the then current 
version of the Class Rules will be regarded as complying with the present rules in perpetuity 
and may be used for Class racing. They must be used in accordance with the requirements of 
the rules in force on the date of registration.
Resolution proposed by Anthony Burdall and Seconded by Jeff Roberts."

As I understand it in 2011 the plan had been that the old rules would 'switch off' at the end of 2012.

My strong inclination would be towards encouraging the transition to the new one-design sail plan. Allowing old-rule sails to be ordered and registered throughout this season simply means that it will be 2016 at least before we start looking and racing like a one-design fleet again.

On present information I (therefore) think the Feb 2014 cutoff is too late. Is there good reason that I am wrong?

In light of the fact that indications seem to have been given that the legality of sails registered in 2012 would be preserved, it might be said that the Feb 2012 date was too early.

What about AGM 2013 as a cutoff?

Mark Himsworth
(Drumbeat)
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gibbd001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gibbd001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2013 at 9:52pm
I think that either proposal is good in that it allows those who have purchased sails already to continue using them for racing. I understood that one of the selling points of going to this new sail plan was to allow more people to be included in racing as cruisers would better be competing if the max sail size allowed could be put onto a furler. Either proposal means those who have purchased a new number one and rarely use it are not going to have a sail which is in a few years still almost as crisp as when they purchased it but it becomes nothing more than good for crew kit bags!!! Based on the price of Quba clothing and bags it may actually turn out to be a cheap way to get Quba equivalent kit!!

In terms of the differences between the two proposals, and it may be me just being cynical, the first proposal for allowing sails to be registered up until 2014 would mean that if I had the money I could go and buy a loft full of no.1's and register them all. If I purchased enough I could gradually go through my loft of sails already registered for many years to come. This means the class may never become one design as those who buy and register loads in the next year could have a lifetime supply of new sails.

Proposal 2 means that the point at which we knew a new size of sail was coming in, and it became legal to use, is the cut off point. Logically those who purchased new number ones after this point knew that they were purchasing a soon to be obsolete sail and thus would have either not bought one or at least bought one on the knowledge it would only be accepted for a season or two. 

I am unsure why we should still be allowing people to buy sails which have a larger sail area as there must be an advantage if they do feel that there is some point in doing so. I see this addition as being a way of allowing more people to race who only decide to do so infrequently and are not wishing to buy new sails for these small number of occasions as opposed to a way of getting around the new rules for potentially a long time to come.
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Keith Feltham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Keith Feltham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 7:11pm
Does this mean that owners who can afford new sails to the new spec. will have a further option in light airs to sail with their old No. 1? If so it gives some owners an advantage for a few more years. Owners should not be allowed to shift to the new sail spec and change back at will. There was a lead in period and once exhausted the sail plan should be confirmed. The new plan does not prevent anyone from participating; it just means that those few who have sails made to the old spec will have to use their No.2. The Class should not have a rule that clearly gives an advantage to some..

The Class should also not pander to the few who do not want to adopt the new sail plan but who hope to race occasionally and clean up by using sails larger than the rest of the fleet.

I hope these comments help in the debate. I have no axe to grind as I am no longer an owner but in continuing as a member I hope that I can add something.
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moongirl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moongirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2013 at 8:17am
It looks like the AGM could be lively!
Whilst 'talking' sails I checked the current Rules on our Site & note that they say that a Number 4 must be carried when Racing - is that correct? John McCann was surprised when I mentioned it to him last night.
COLIN
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eldredh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eldredh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2013 at 11:23pm
Yes Colin, I noticed that appeared a year or two ago. It didn't used to be the case.
 
Eldred
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Keith Feltham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Keith Feltham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 8:14am
Eldred/Colin. It has always been the case that a storm sail/jib should be carried on board and in anycase it is just good seamanship. The wording has just changed to fit in with IRC and ISAF Regs.
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moongirl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moongirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 9:18am
Keith
Just checked the ISAF Regs & Unless I am blind there is no mention of number 4 or Storm Jib.
Will check the IRC after breakfast!
By the way I too think its seaman like to carry a Storm Jib but not really necessary for an Inshore Series.
COLIN
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Keith Feltham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 9:47am
Colin, Our rules refer to ISAF rules, that are often changing, in respect of the No5, and our rules say that this sail may be required in accordance with the race category of any particular race/regatta.

You are probably referring to relatively sheltered waters, inshore in the Solent. I can think of many places that would be regarded as inshore where it would be prudent to and foolish not to carry a storm sail. The CO32 Class is international and not just based in the Solent.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moongirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 9:57am
The Rules as per currently available on this Site say a Number 4 must be carried!
Point taken about the International nature of the Class - I am going off to stick my wrist in a bucket of icy water!
Incidentally I think in my more than 30 years of Contessa racing I have never seen a Number 4 let alone set one. Might have been useful when we got caught out in the Cowes/Deauville great storm a few years back - being Polar Star I am not sure there was one on board!
COLIN
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moongirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 11:45am
Just checked IRC & no mention of what sails must be carried. Only how sails are to be measured and where they may be set from.
Keith mentions a No 5 whereas I was talking about a No 4.
COLIN
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